Can't We All Just Get Along?The debate over a national broadband plan 01:20PM Friday May 02 2008 by Karl Bodetags: competition · coverage · business · Op/Ed · PoliticsTipped by Annmarie  The United States is fifteenth in broadband penetration, thanks largely to our long copper loop lengths stretched along dusty, rural roads (aka geography). But some of it has to do with the fact that our government policy consists of either doing nothing, or allowing telecom lobbyists to write the nation's telecom laws. A new study by the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation examines our penetration failings, and aims to find a middle-ground to a debate that's raged in our forums for as long as this website has existed. Much of the study is based on already well-discussed OECD data, which is where our fifteenth-ranked status originates. Those who believe in the infallibility of industry (like FCC commissioner Robert McDowell) deny there's a problem with broadband coverage. Others want the government to play a starring role in both financing and overseeing the expansion of broadband networks. The study's primary goal appears to be to strike a middle ground between what they see as two extreme, warring factions: The U.S. broadband policy environment is characterized on the one hand by market fundamentalists who see little or no role for government, and see government as the problem; and on the other by digital populists who favor a vastly expanded role for government (including government ownership of networks and strict and comprehensive regulation, including mandatory unbundling of incumbent networks and strict net neutrality regulations) and who see big corporations providing broadband as a problem. Given the policy advocacy and advice they are getting, it is no wonder that Congress and the Administration have done so little. That's probably simplistic, given many people want a middle ground: balanced, fair regulation of industry and something vaguely resembling a reasonable broadband plan. They aren't getting it. Providers (and their various policy vehicles) have deeper pockets and louder bullhorns than the under-funded consumer groups pushing for change. Government apathy isn't due to confusion (as the study insists), it's thanks to industry lobbying aimed at maintaining the status quo (largely uncompetitive duopoly and government's apathy towards it). As a result, it has taken the better part of a decade just come to the consensus that someone should actually bother to map broadband penetration in this country. The reason there is no comprehensive broadband plan isn't because of bickering, it's because the government has been lobbied to ensure one isn't created. In fact, the currently favored broadband plan in DC ( Connected Nation) has every indication of being a dog and pony show cooked up by providers to mask industry failings and pre-empt substantive change. Still, the ITIF believes that opponents in the debate can see through their differences and strike a reasonable consensus. Their solution is multi-pronged, involving some things that make sense (overdue USF reform), and some things that don't (blind support for Connected Nation). Let us now fight endlessly in the comment section below with the end result being that nothing is actually accomplished! *The firm's full broadband rankings (including cost paid per MB and average speed) can be found here (pdf), though they seem traffic-swamped at the moment. Related:- NAACP Inconsistent on Broadband
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  vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| I'd like to know Of the 14 countries ahead of the US in broadband penetration, what is their total land size & population density versus the US? I'm not saying our policy isn't partially responsible, but I'd like to quantify the effect of policy by eliminating the obvious. | |
|  |  LastSurvivor
join:2008-01-02 Toledo, OH
| Re: I'd like to know ---- Over the past year, the number of broadband subscribers in the OECD increased 24% from 178 million in June 2006 to 221 million in June 2007. This growth increased broadband penetration rates in the OECD from 15.1 in June 2006 to 18.8 subscriptions per 100 inhabitants one year later.
The main highlights for June 2007 are:
* Denmark, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Korea, Norway and Iceland lead the OECD in broadband penetration, each with over 29 subscribers per 100 inhabitants.
* The strongest per-capita subscriber growth over the year was in Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Australia, Norway, Denmark and Luxembourg. Each country added more than 5 subscribers per 100 inhabitants during the past year.
* Operators in several countries continue upgrading subscriber lines to fibre. Fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) and Fibre-to-the-building (FTTB) subscriptions now comprise 8% of all broadband connections in the OECD, up from 7% one year ago, and the percentage is growing. Fiber connections account for 36% of all broadband subscriptions in Japan, and 31% in Korea.
* The United States is the largest broadband market in the OECD with 66.2 million subscribers. US broadband subscribers now represent 30% of all broadband connections in the OECD. ----
Check out this link »www.oecd.org/document/60/0,3343,···,00.html
It's based on Broadband subscribers per 100 inhabitants, by technology, June 2007, if you see that Denmark (ranked 1st) has only 1.866 mil subs. while US has 66.2 mil subscribers, but yet we are 15th because of total population. | |
|  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by vpoko :Of the 14 countries ahead of the US in broadband penetration, what is their total land size & population density versus the US? I'm not saying our policy isn't partially responsible, but I'd like to quantify the effect of policy by eliminating the obvious. The OECD has already done studies that normalize for population density.
The result: there is little or no correlation between population density and broadband penetration rankings.
In other words, the cry "but we're so much bigger and spread out" is just another empty excuse for the sorry performance of the U.S. | |
|  |  |   vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| Re: I'd like to know I'd like to see the results that say there's "there is little or no correlation between population density and broadband penetration rankings." Simply put, I don't believe it. Even if national broadband policy has the bigger impact, how is it possible that pop. density is irrelevant to broadband penetration? There's no way that the correlation is zero. | |
|  |  |  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
edit: May 2nd, @06:13PM
| Re: I'd like to know I might have exaggerated when I said "no correlation", but here is the data:
»www.oecd.org/sti/ict/broadband
data released June '07; go to item 3a for the spreadsheet.
a correlation of 0.24 is pretty low; in addition, note that there are 6 countries ahead of the U.S. with lower pop density, in some cases, much lower (US = 32, Canada =3.3)
penetration per 100 inhabitants/Pop. density Denmark 34.3 /126.1 Netherlands 33.5 /400.5 Switzerland 30.7 /183.0 Korea 29.9 /484.9 Norway 29.8 /14.4 Iceland 29.8 /3.0 Finland 28.8 /15.6 Sweden 28.6 /20.2 Canada 25.0 /3.3 Belgium 23.8 /345.8 United Kingdom 23.7 /247.3 Australia 22.7 /2.7 France 22.5 /115.1 Luxembourg 22.2 /181.8 United States 22.1 /32.0 Japan 21.3 /338.2 Germany 21.2 /230.8 Austria 18.6 /98.7 Correlation: 0.24 | |
|  |  |  |  |   vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| Re: I'd like to know That's some pretty good data, certainly shows there are problems beyond population density. But I would say the data is still flawed. Countries like Canada and Australia have populated regions, and they have areas where nobody lives. In the US, on the other hand, most remote areas still have some population. In other words, there's a lot of dead mass. | |
|  |  |  Tigerpaw509 Premium join:2006-07-15 Huntley, IL | So why no catv in my neighborhood ? | |
|  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| This argument has been rehashed over and over.
It has been demonstrated time and time again that geography and population density arguments only apply to rural areas; as has been stated, many cities in the USA exceed the population density and have similar geography issues as cities in other parts of the world where they have much more choice, much faster services and options, and much lower prices.
While I agree geography is a big factor for rural areas, when it comes to the urban areas, the argument that "It's so much harder or expensive to do here in the USA then ___________ " (name the advanced broadband country) is really just a red herring. The main factor is the lack of competition, the lack of regulatory leadership or enforcement and the insistence on only allowing large companies to dominate the market at levels of ROI they choose. In fact we even allow them to blackmail communities for special treatment. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|  satellite68
join:2007-04-11 Louisville, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..
| Map it We can map roads, buildings, sidewalks, parcels of land, weather patterns, demographics, sewers, railroads, my old girlfriend's undies (kidding), but somehow we can't map broadband penetration?
ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? | |
|  |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Map it said by satellite68 :ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? What. And get an accurate overview of just how completely pathethic BB is in the U.S.? You must be joking. Accuracy means the obfuscation/lies/distortions of all the "studies" conducted by the FCC won't be so easily swallowed. | |
|  |  |  satellite68
join:2007-04-11 Louisville, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..
| Re: Map it said by SilverSurfer :said by satellite68 :ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? What. And get an accurate overview of just how completely pathethic BB is in the U.S.? You must be joking. Accuracy means the obfuscation/lies/distortions of all the "studies" conducted by the FCC won't be so easily swallowed. My point exactly - if it's accurately reported, wouldn't the inaccuracies of the FCC come to light in demonstratively bad ways? | |
|  |  |  |   idjk
@embarqhsd.net
| Re: Map it It cost us 41 million to be told by the IRS that they were sending out rebate checks (like we didn't know) can you imagine what it would cost for a map like this , plus it would take 10 years and be no good by the time it came out. And if there is a market for BB in backwater that will make money for someone or some company then it will get to backwater but not before the more profitable places have been used up. I don't want the gov. getting into anything else -it always cost more and works less when they do! | |
|  |  |  |  |  satellite68
join:2007-04-11 Louisville, KY | Re: Map it Uh, yeah. You're obviously clueless about the capabilities of current mapping software...
www.esri.com
And who said anything about the gov't getting involved? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Vespid
join:2002-09-24 Sharon, MA
| Re: Map it The mapping is the easy part...the data is the challenge. If you have ever tried to collect broadband coverage data from telcos or MSOs you would understand that they view their coverage data as extremely confidential. The FCC protects this coverage data from prying public eyes as well..which is why they release the pathetic ZIP Code broadband analyses. National maps of broadband coverage could be assembled within weeks (by a small team of analysts), were the various service providers required to disclose coverage availability...so the lack of a broadband policy is clearly driven by our governments inability to elevate the public good above the desires of corporations. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  satellite68
join:2007-04-11 Louisville, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..
| Re: Map it Well, what I'm saying is if they want to continue recv'ing USF funds on the telco side, we should require them to give up the data. And on the cable side, we should hold them accountable through the right of way/franchise agreements.
WE hold them by the testicles and we should start squeezing them to get the data. What, are both telcos and cable operators gonna go out and tear up all that infrastructure to keep the public from their precious data? Hardly! | |
|   Surfinusa Premium join:2001-02-08
| Now this is news to me???
"Government policy allows telecom lobbyists to write the nations telecom laws?"
Now what else is news?
Oil prices are not effected by Government, the Government can't do a thing, its possible to justify the gouging????
Now Lobbyists do lots of things and the fact everyone knows what they do is sell to the government or should I say pay off what they want the Gov to do.
And everyone is okay with that.
No one has done anything about it so far.
Government officials seem to like the extra perk in their pockets. | |
|   Eddyisgreat Premium join:2003-01-21 Seattle, WA clubs: | I'm wondering..what can we do about this? We've already realized that "Connected Nation" Isn't doing much, but if they are the government's go-to guys , how can that change?
Opinions, please! | |
|   kapil The Kapil
join:2000-04-26 Chicago, IL
·XO COMMUNICATIONS
·Comcast
| Get In Line National Broadband Plan? Do we have a national plan for anything? When there's people going hungry, or not able to afford gasoline, or health coverage for their kids, or college tuition, or mortgage payments...broadband will have to wait its turn.
We do need a national plan...for a lot of things. But first we need to get rid of the morons that think the free market will take care of us all and realize that we, as a nation, need to make serious investments - if we are to catch up for decades of neglect - in national infrastructure, public services and things that benefit us all.
Clean public restrooms to education, highways, bridges, colleges, affordable housing, healthcare....and yes, even broadband so that we may compete better in a global economy based on information. Walmart and Halliburton won't give us any of those things, regardless of how many tax breaks we give them. It's time to make this country work for its citizens, not the corporations. -- »PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
|  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Get In Line said by kapil :..Do we have a national plan for anything? ... I believe there are currently national plans for the following:
* drown govt in a bathtub by reducing/removing sources of govt revenue and outsourcing govt jobs to private industry * loot the US treasury for the benefit of defense contractors and others friendly with the current administration * destroy the govt safety net that helps the poor and others * and finally, destroy the constitutional rights of US citizens
who says we don't have national plans? | |
|   Alakar Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23 Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| We see the problem here... Look at most of the threads on this forum and you see a microcosm of the problem across the country. Arguments run like this:
Point "OMG! Big corporations are nothing but EVIL!!! The do nothing right and I want my 100 TB connection for $5"
Counter-Point "OMG! What are you a communist that wants the government to control everything? The free market is God and everything works better without any government interference. The free market is supporting $40 for a 5Mb line so it must be right."
A comprehensive broadband policy needs to be in the middle of these extremes. Companies deserve to make a profit. Government has roll in making broadband deployment benefit the country as a whole and not just serve the profits of companies rolling it out.
Until these goofy extremes stop dominating the debate, we won't see any real change. -- "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the arguments of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger | |
|  |  nickstoy
join:2001-02-03 Notre-Dame-De-L'Ile-Perrot, QC
·Videotron
| Re: We see the problem here... said by Alakar :Point "OMG! Big corporations are nothing but EVIL!!! The do nothing right and I want my 100 TB connection for $5" Counter-Point "OMG! What are you a communist that wants the government to control everything? The free market is God and everything works better without any government interference. The free market is supporting $40 for a 5Mb line so it must be right." LOL | |
|  bamabrad
join:2006-01-27 Port Orange, FL | ROI is the main thing... In a capitalistic society-unless 'encouraged' by gov actions. | |
|  |  |  DMNTD
join:2002-10-19 usa
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Educate Yourselves!! said by Tzale :The Government should do NOTHING. This is America, not fucking Europe. People need to learn about why the U.S. is considered a radically different country... We SHOULDN'T be giving out handouts to any company that promises broadband. I'd rather us eliminate all taxes and nanny state / welfare programs and get back to basic American Government duties.. Too bad this country is overran by neoconservative Republicans and Democrats. -Tzale HERE! HERE! ITS OUR COOKIE JAR! We make the cookies, get out government! I believe Ron Paul has a "few" packets on this idea. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  DMNTD
join:2002-10-19 usa | Re: Educate Yourselves!! well good sir, thats the magic of change eh? for the internet you can't HEAR me..so this is null and void. good day. | |
|  |   kyisp
@iglou.com
| He who owns the pipe should not control the content The telephone and cable companies have a virtual lock on the marketplace on three levels. (1) They control access to the telephone poles and right of ways. (2) They were guaranteed a profit while developing their infrastructure. Which means any new competitors not only have to build their network without gauranteed profits but while competing against an established competitor. (3) They hold this control in the profit rich metropolitan areas.
Getting a new cable franchise, laying new cable or installing new telephone poles in a major metropolitan area is next to impossible. Without the profit from the metropolitan areas it is difficult to build out into the rural areas.
The best bet for the rural areas is wireless but the only real players in the wireless arena are small isps. They have done wondrous things with frequencies that were meant for garage doors openers and remote control cars. These frequencies are limited to 1/4 of a watt. Even CB radios are allowed 5 watts.
The phone companies are struggling because they made most of their money off of plain old telephone service. If they allow naked DSL or DSL without a telephone line attached they will lose their most profitable product.
The cable companies are worried because if they allow video on demand to flow over their broadband connections they will lose sales on their main product. Dont you think HBO would rather sell direct to the consumer than to go through the cable company?
The film producers and the music industry are frightened because film and music artists wont have to go through them to introduce a product to the market.
The cable and phone companies are drooling to control the only path for video and music content. They are spending more time on gaining exclusive control than they are on their infrastructure.
Whats the real solution to this mess? Structural separation. Separate the control of the pipe from the content. I am a free market guy but just like the roadways in America this is the only solution when dealing with a finite resource. The resource isnt bandwidth its right of ways and wireless frequencies. If we continue to allow the cable and telephone companies to control this resource we will only have AT&T and Time Warner trucks traveling down the roadway of the internet. When that happens you will stop the largest free market in America - the internet. | |
|  qworster
join:2001-11-25 Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME
·EarthLink
edit: May 2nd, @08:51PM
| We pay the highest costs for the slowest speeds! From Yahoo:
"The ITIF report compared the U.S. broadband environment to eight other countries, most with higher speeds and lower prices. In several cases, the countries launched extensive broadband programs in the last decade, with government working closely with broadband providers to expand coverage and roll out next-generation broadband.
The results: In Japan, the average download speed is 63.6M bps (bits per second), and the lowest advertised price is $0.13 per megabit, according to the report. Sweden, a largely rural country, has average download speeds of 16.8M bps and the lowest price is $0.35 per megabit.
In the U.S., the average download speed, based on actual broadband services used, is 4.9M bps, the report says. The lowest advertised price is $2.83 per megabit.
Not only that, the FCC considers any connection greater then 256 kbps to be broadband! Those 768/128 el cheapo DSL connections that can't even support basic VOIP? broadband!
Without this definition, we'd probably drop out of the top 25 broadband wise! | |
|  |   johndoe303
join:2003-01-01 Boca Raton, FL | Re: We pay the highest costs for the slowest speeds! Exactly. | |
|  |  gtxpress Premium join:2005-05-13 Bulverde, TX
| Do we believe that any of this will make a difference? It took the government giving the telephone companies tax breaks and classified them as a utility company to give us the stranglehold that exists today. The low interest telecommunications loans are a step in the right direction but it does not go far enough to bring competition to the broadband market in the US. When will that happen/ | |
|  Y2KickIT
join:2003-06-29 Mcminnville, OR
| National Broadband Policy? It is interesting to read people who do not know our own history, do not understand infrastructure, do not understand market forces and the role of government in incentives/disincentives and regulation.
Markets aren't "Free," even the black market quickly is organized in a system of rules understood by the players and acts to erect barriers to entry and eliminate competition.
In a market system, government most often has played a role in the development of a technology and the deployment of a ubiquitous infrastructure that is necessary for use as an economically reliable tool for businesses.
The "Middle Ground" in this article is not some mish mash of policy. You need to create a dynamic marketplace. This exists in countries that have spurred deployment either by private entities or by direct government investment where the local connection has open access and multiple vendors compete for services deployed over the access network.
Since the US is so far behind and we need jobs and infrastructure, direct investment in Fiber-To-The-Premises as the national local access network standard, divesting the access networks from service providers, and allowing all to compete over this common fiber access network would allow a quick rise in price/performance.
The article mentions penetration as the end all, no, it is price performance. 100/100 Mbps or 1Gbps/1Gbps is available in many of the countries WITH a national broadband policy, and at very low rates, imagine US 100 Mbps symmetric IPv6 Static IP service for $20 a month.
Now that would be an economic stimulus plan. Imagine a four day work week with at least one day you can work virtual from home with full motion full screen video conferencing that is affordable?
Some employees could work from home most of the time. What would a 40% reduction in commuting do to our environment, our national economy, the oil crisis, and our personal pocketbook?
It is time to dust off the ideas of "telecommuting," the 1996 National Information Infrastructure Plan, and the 1997 report by Raj Reddy of the President's Information Technology Advisory Council (PITAC) entitled "A National Gigabit Data Grid Fiber-To-The-Home Infrastructure."
These ideas and the US dominance in computers and Internet technologies worried other industrial countries so much they responded to these US initiatives with their own national policies. Here we bowed to the "Free Market" force of the Telecommunications Lobbyists on K Street lining the pockets of Congress and writing legislation for them.
What we got is a rapid loss of our dominance, and telecom and cable companies censoring content, and illegally wiretapping our communications in violation of the fourth amendment. | |
|  |   Mr Kentucky
@alltel.net | Re: National Broadband Policy? Thanks for sharing the info. Good read.  | |
|  notwrth10
join:2007-03-03 1001EB | Can't We All Just Get Along?
only if you will flush the toilet of comcast fanboys on this site.
Till then.... NO! | |
|  |   koma3504 Advocate Premium join:2004-06-22 North Richland Hills, TX | Re: Can't We All Just Get Along? Yea sure get rid of bad-apples in the Coporate enviroment.
Get rid of some managment folk with big fat checks that do nothing in COrporate that wouldnt know how to fix a acually line problem | |
|   cork1958 Cork
join:2000-02-26 Fruitport, MI | Blame it on numbnuts Bush! Just another thing to blame on our dear numbnuts President Bush!! | |
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