 propflux01
join:2003-02-03 Conway, AR
| SNR/Attentuation "Chart"
Hello, Was wondering if anyone could give me some kind of chart or whatnot so I can see if my SNR and ATT is a problem. I am running Windstream DSL @ 1.291 Kbps, and as of late have been having very frequent disconnects and after several days on the support line, I received a new modem and still had same problem, so tech came out, called me at work, said my SNR was way different than what he was seeing outside. My stats are as follows, but I have no idea if it is good or not..
ATU-C Current Tx Rate (bits/sec) 1536000
ATU-R Current Tx Rate (bits/sec) 384000
SNR 27.0
Atten: 34.5
Anyone have any idea if these are good or bad numbers? |
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 AZinOH
join:2007-04-25 Swanton, OH
·Windstream
| Your SNR is very good, almost excellent. The Atten depends on how far away you are from the CO/RT. Do you know? It's probably not bad enough to cause a problem, but it's less than ideal and if you are close to the central office/remote terminal that serves you there is probably something that a tech could do to improve it. |
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 propflux01
join:2003-02-03 Conway, AR | reply to propflux01 I am about a mile from it as the crow flies, mile and half driving there. The wiring in my house is about a year old, all cat 5, so is it something in mine or thier issue? |
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  One who knows
@rr.com
moderated: August 29th, @11:12PM
| Your attenuation will not change once all your filters are in place. Given that attenuation is loss of signal over distance, and your distance from the CO will never change, that will be a constant.
As far as distance, a mile as the crow flies could be much longer depending on if your wire is from a very old installation period and routed in manholes and such that make square corners. The wire in your house, by comparison to the run from NID to switch, has very little to do with it. CAT5 vs phone cable may actually be a hinderance, since those twisted pairs make for more wire between point A and point B. Cut a 6 inch piece of CAT5 and untwist the pairs and see how long a 6 inch hunk of CAT5 really is.
In a former life I had DSL, and I ran a 50 ft phone cable up through a wall, across a suspended ceiling and down inside the other wall, and just bundled up the excess, and I had NO issues due to cable length. |
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 gfaith Premium join:2008-08-27 Lovington, NM
·Windstream
| reply to propflux01 Hey propflux the numbers you showed for you SNR 27.0 and Atten 34.5 were very close to my previous readings @ 1.5 Mbps. The disconnects you experienced probably affected others as well more general (local) in nature.
To continue with the story today I was upgraded to 6.0 Mbps and my SNR fell to 11.5-16.0 and Atten increased to 40.5. I experienced very few disconnects with the numbers you are running, and might just give up the speed gain to get them back. .. We will see.. I need to run the Homerun wiring first (sounds like you already have the cat5 run). |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
| reply to propflux01 Here you go, it has been posted in this Forum multiple times.
How do I check modem statistics/event logs? What do the numbers mean?
Although what is monitored and the exact name may be different depending on manufacturer, the overall information is pretty much the same. Below are some of the common terms and measurements used to judge line quality. Remember these are not hard numbers but simply a generalization of line statistics: SN Margin (AKA Signal to Noise Margin or Signal to Noise Ratio)Relative strength of the DSL signal to Noise ratio. 6dB is generally the lowest dB manufactures specify in order for the modem to be able to synch. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level. Generally speaking, as overall bandwidth increases, your signal to noise ratio decreases. So a customer that upgrades from 1.5 to 6.0 service will typically see a corresponding decrease in the signal to noise ratio. The higher the number the better for this measurement.  6dB or below is bad and will experience no synch or intermittent synch problems  7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions  11dB-20dB is good with no synch problems  20dB-28dB is excellent  29dB or above is outstanding Line AttenuationMeasure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. Maximum signal loss recommendation is usually about 60dB. One of the biggest factors affecting line attenuation is distance from the DSLAM. Generally speaking, bigger distances mean higher attenuation. The lower the dB the better for this measurement.  20dB and below is outstanding  20dB-30dB is excellent  30dB-40dB is very good  40dB-50dB is good  50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues  60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues -- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
| reply to gfaith said by gfaith : today I was upgraded to 6.0 Mbps and my SNR fell to 11.5-16.0 and Atten increased to 40.5. Your Attenuation should not change with a Speed increase. Attenuation is a Measure of line distance/loop length. Attenuation isn't affected by speed changes.

-- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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 gfaith Premium join:2008-08-27 Lovington, NM | I would agree Doc, but the facts are it did increase wish I had saved a few screen shots. |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
| said by gfaith :I would agree Doc, but the facts are it did increase wish I had saved a few screen shots. Test out at the NID then to see how much your inside wiring may be degrading the signal.
Here is my line at 3.0 Mbps and at 6.0 Mbps in the next two images. See the Attenuation? Only the SNR dropped as it should based on the FAQ I posted, but the Attenuation stayed at 30.5 dB when I upgraded from the 3.0/384 to the 6.0/768 Speed plan since speed changes do not affect Attenuation, but bad wiring will affect it.


Regards,
Doctor Olds -- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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 gfaith Premium join:2008-08-27 Lovington, NM
·Windstream
edit: August 30th, @04:26AM
| said by Doctor Olds : Test out at the NID then to see how much your inside wiring may be degrading the signal. That is the plan. I had planned to run a Cat5 Homerun anyway working for a electrical utility makes me always want bigger wire to lower the impedance of the circuit. So, I will do some testing during the process. A Question: Would there have been any wiring change at the CO that could have contributed to the increase in my Atten.? How would a bad connection at the PIN on the Dslam affect my Atten. numbers? Lots of questions  |
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 propflux01
join:2003-02-03 Conway, AR
| reply to Doctor Olds said by Doctor Olds :Here you go, it has been posted in this Forum multiple times. I did do a search and did not come up with it, however thank you very much for the info, it is exactly what i was looking for. I did not give my SNR/ATT to the tech, only my diagnostics page, a simple page informing of a pass/fail for hook up, and the modem log which only contained mac address and log of how many times connect/disconnect, So I fail to see how he figured the SNR I was getting at my modem vs what hs was gettign outside, while never entering my house. |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
edit: August 30th, @08:26AM
| said by propflux01 :I did not give my SNR/ATT to the tech, only my diagnostics page, a simple page informing of a pass/fail for hook up, and the modem log which only contained mac address and log of how many times connect/disconnect, So I fail to see how he figured the SNR I was getting at my modem vs what hs was gettign outside, while never entering my house. You don't have to. The tech carries a diagnostic meter so he would know what is at the NID and he can assume if you have no wiring defects it would be the same values inside as it is out at the NID.


Plus the DSLAM at the CO and/or at the RT reports the current SNR and Attenuation as seen from their end. They see all the cards and the ports for each card has a full data display available with multiple tabs of data including the port rates (sync rates) along with error counts and number of resets plus a lot more.

Regards,
Doctor Olds -- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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 rmp472
join:2002-10-29 Jamestown, NY
| reply to Doctor Olds I know they are consolidating 2 remotes in my area, and they will be moving me to one that is a bit further away, but the engineer says I will then be able to get 6Mb, since the remote will be fiber fed. Perhaps that is what happened here and why his attenuation went up, maybe he is now connected to a different remote further away in order to get the 6Mb. |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
| Usually remotes are not spaced close enough that a household is close enough to reach more than one since they are not on the cheap side running many thousands of dollars for just the hardware, not counting the labor costs and running fiber costs. It sounds like something else is going on.

-- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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  dslman
@alltel.net
| reply to One who knows Your attenuation will not change once all your filters are in place. Given that attenuation is loss of signal over distance, and your distance from the CO will never change, that will be a constant.
Not entirely true. The resistance offered by your local loop will vary with temperature, increasing as temperature rises. |
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 gfaith Premium join:2008-08-27 Lovington, NM
·Windstream
edit: September 9th, @12:43AM
| reply to Doctor Olds After running Cat5 homerun. My Atten. went back down to 38.5db as expected and I can live with both it and the SNR. No doubt I had problems in my house wiring. My speeds are typically around 5600 down and 300 up. Workable for sure.
-- ~ Preach the Gospel always. If necessary use words. ~ Francis of Assisi |
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  Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:
| said by gfaith :After running Cat5 homerun. My Atten. went back down to 38.5db as expected and I can live with both it and the SNR. No doubt I had problems in my house wiring. My speeds are typically around 5600 down and 300 up. Workable for sure. Glad to hear of your success!  -- Whats the point of owning a supercar if you cant scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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  shadowfax Premium join:2007-01-06 Lexington, KY | reply to propflux01 Yep, good stats for the 6 meg service. |
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