republican-creole
Search:  

 
 
   All ForumsHot TopicsGallery






how-to block ads


 
Forums » FCC Boss Says Comcast Guilty, Should Be Punished » Good but only if it applies to everyone
Search Topic:
Uniqs:
525
Share Topic:
RSS topic:
toggle:
flat / full
normal / watch
Post a:
Post a:
Thank you to BroadbandReports.com »
« Law of unintended consequences  
page: 1 · 2 · 3
AuthorAll Replies


Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·MegaPath
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
July 11th, @10:20AM

Good but only if it applies to everyone

Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner Roadrunner traffic shape.

If the FCC is going to go after Comcast, they should have to go after everyone else too. And if they're going after traffic shaping, why not port blocking? It could certainly be argued that port 25 blocking for example is anticompetitive against other mail providers in violation of FCC item 4 below.

Before going after people...they need to make VERY CLEAR rules as to what they expect instead of this sort of "we know it when we see it" crap the FCC usually adheres to.

said by FCC :
New Principles Preserve and Promote the Open and Interconnected Nature of Public Internet
Washington, D.C. – The Federal Communications Commission today adopted a policy statement that outlines four principles to encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected nature of public Internet:

(1) consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of their choice;
(2) consumers are entitled to run applications and services of their choice, subject to the needs of law enforcement;
(3) consumers are entitled to connect their choice of legal devices that do not harm the network; and
(4) consumers are entitled to competition among network providers, application and service providers, and content providers.

Although the Commission did not adopt rules in this regard, it will incorporate these principles into its ongoing policymaking activities. All of these principles are subject to reasonable network management.

Action by the Commission August 5, 2005, by Policy Statement (FCC 05-151).
Chairman Martin, Commissioners Martin, Abernathy, Copps, and Adelstein, with Chairman Martin issuing a statement.

That's about as vague as you can get. They need to clearly state the rules. And who gets to decide what network management is reasonable. We've seen what Comcast sees as reasonable and evidentially the FCC didn't agree.


TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

said by Dogfather See Profile :

Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner traffic shape.

If the FCC is going to go after Comcast, they should have to go after everyone else too. And if they're going after traffic shaping, why not port blocking? It could certainly be argued that port 25 blocking for example is anticompetitive against other mail providers in violation of FCC item 4 below.

Before going after people...they need to make VERY CLEAR rules as to what they expect instead of this sort of "we know it when we see it" crap the FCC usually adheres to.

That's about as vague as you can get. They need to clearly state the rules. And who gets to decide what network management is reasonable. We've seen what Comcast sees as reasonable and evidentially the FCC didn't agree.
Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs:
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
July 11th, @09:19AM

reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather See Profile :

Don't single out Comcast. Both Cox and Time Warner traffic shape.

TWC does not do it in all areas

when i use torrent i can get 900Kbyte/s to 1.1MByte/s down any time of the day

upload avg is 115kbyte/s


Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Yahoo

TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as
well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I
still had it last year around the time they starting doing it.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)


funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast

reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so.
I'm just a tech guy, but I wondered the same thing as you until one of the lawyer's at Free Press listed more than half-a-dozen precedents that indicate the FCC already has the authority, enabled via that very Policy Statement.

Have you looked at those arguments? They're quite strong and together they are unassailable. They've been listed in a recent FCC filing and can be read here: »www.freepress.net/node/41653
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...


TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast


edit:
July 11th, @09:44AM

said by funchords See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. If the FCC is stupid enough to fine Comcast, they will lose in court as they have before when targeting cable without any legal authority to do so.
I'm just a tech guy, but I wondered the same thing as you until one of the lawyer's at Free Press listed more than half-a-dozen precedents that indicate the FCC already has the authority, enabled via that very Policy Statement.

Have you looked at those arguments? They're quite strong and together they are unassailable. They've been listed in a recent FCC filing and can be read here: »www.freepress.net/node/41653
I'd be more impressed with their legal arguments if I thought Federal Circuit & Appeals Courts and the USSC actually based their decisions purely on the law. What they apparently do is decide what they think is right(based on their own personal & political views and on current popular political theory) and then DIG UP precedent to back their decision. They don't appear to work as most people believe - that is base the decision on the law alone. I had a sitting Federal judge as a teacher in graduate school and, off the record & after class, admit that is how many cases are decided. They make a decision and THEN research the law to back the way they want to rule on a case.

So, no matter what the LAW is, the D.C. circuit may very well rule as they have in the past where cable is concerned- against the FCC.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs:
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
July 11th, @09:44AM

reply to Doctor Four
Click for full size
....

hottboiinnc
Kyle

join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable

reply to punker
TWC DOES NOT DO IT! RoadRunner does who is the actual ISP.

Go read your TOS and AUPs from the help.rr.com site. You agree to both their AUPs as well as Time Warner's. RR has the right to do what they want to you since they "own" the network, TWC "leases" it according to the AUP and the TOS. The same with BH customers and anyone else who leases their lines to RoadRunner.


punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs:

edit:
July 11th, @09:49AM

my avg upload speed out of 130Megabytes is 114Kbyte up (OR 914 KBITS/s)

no one reads em anyhow

why should i read an buch of crap


Hereyougo

@tds.net

reply to hottboiinnc
I call BS. Just becuase someone hides something in a TOS doesn't mean they get carte blanche on whatever they want to do. That does seem to be a very 'equal' contract when these companies do that kind of thing. Remember that that for a contract to be enforceable they need to be conscionable. Here's a little link about this kind of thing. It works in theory in the US like this as well.
»www.fairtrading.act.gov.au/Pages···uct.html

Most of these TOS and AUP are pretty badly slanted towards the provider.
Cell phone companies trie this crap too and it seems that the feds don't care too much as much as it has happen this past 8 years.: »lawprofessors.typepad.com/contra···bit.html

nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Martin is just going after Comcast because it has fought his favorite cause as commissioner - a la carte. ...
I have a new theory about why Martin seems to carry water for the telcos:

before I begin, please note that Martin's wife worked in the office of the VP for Cheney.

Martin was told to make sure the telcos get whatever they want in the way of regulatory forbearance to make sure they would continue to implement the administration's warrantless wiretapping program.

a little "tin foil hat", but isn't it fun to speculate?

hottboiinnc
Kyle

join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable

reply to punker
because chances are if you don't read them you'll be one of the many on here that cries about the way ISPs manage their network.

Read what you agree to. Its there for you to read. Other wise if you don't read it shut the hell up and take your business else where. I'm sure your ISP will be glad to get rid of you.


Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·MegaPath
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable

Even if you do read them, more often than not don't tell you anything about how they manage their network.

In some cases they simply say that you can't use the service in a way that degrades the performance of others in the sole opinion of the ISP.

WTF does that mean? These ISPs repeatedly refuse to clearly define abuse and/or they apply these network management principles across the board whether you're negatively "affecting" the network or not.

Unless the AUP spells out in detail what constitutes abuse, pointing to the AUP saying they told you is silly.


Xizer

join:2004-02-05
Kenosha, WI
reply to Dogfather
Time Warner Cable doesn't traffic shape.


Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·MegaPath
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
July 11th, @01:54PM

Really?

»[TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR Users

said by From Time Warner's Help Desk :
TIME WARNER ANNOUNCES INTRODUCTION OF PACKET SHAPING TECHNOLOGY NATIONWIDE

June 6, 2007 -- Time Warner today implemented a network management tool to improve the operation of the network for all subscribers. As a result, a small minority of users may experience slower speeds during peak hours when using certain applications that consume lots of bandwidth. You can address this situation by reducing your use of bandwidth-intensive applications during peak hours. "Peak hours" are generally in the evenings.

"Packet shaping" technology has been implemented for newsgroup applications, regardless of the provider, and all peer-to-peer networks and certain other high bandwidth applications not necessarily limited to audio, video, and voice over IP telephony. Road Runner reserves the right to implement network management tools for other applications in the future.

Customers are reminded of the terms of our Acceptable Use Policy at »help.rr.com/aup:

* The Road Runner service may not be used to engage in any conduct that
interferes with Road Runner's ability to provide service to others,
including the use of excessive bandwidth.

* The Road Runner service may not be used to breach or attempt to breach
the security, the computer, the software or the data of any person or
entity, including Road Runner, to circumvent the user authentication
features or security of any host, network or account, to use or
distribute tools designed to compromise security, or to interfere with
another's use of the Road Runner service through the posting or
transmitting of a virus or other harmful item or to deliberately
overload or flood that entity's system.

Customers are further advised that efforts designed to circumvent our network management
tools may be in violation of our Acceptable Use Policy and may result in account suspension
without warning.
And my 3rd party NNTP service was traffic shaped into the ground. Only after using encryption (on the same service, Giganews) did my speeds pick back up. Turn off encryption and they would over time fall again.


TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
reply to nasadude
Entirely plausible, all things considered.


Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast

reply to Dogfather
Except Comcast went above and beyond traffic shaping. Traffic shaping gives certain packets priority over others and limits connection speeds. Comcast just decided to block certain packets completely and violated several Internet standards to do so. They did all this while refusing to acknowledge that they did so.
--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·MegaPath
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
July 11th, @01:58PM

reply to Doctor Four
said by Doctor Four See Profile :

TW was also allegedly throttling NNTP (Usenet) traffic as
well. Though I never did see that for the few weeks I
still had it last year around the time they starting doing it.
I didn't see it right away. It started for me long after all the hub-bub in the forums here. Then my normally 15Mb DLs from Giganews dropped into the 2-3Mb range in the late evenings. Use encryption and the speeds would be 15Mb day or night. My neighbors complained that their torrent traffic was getting hammered and using encryption sped them up as well.


Xizer

join:2004-02-05
Kenosha, WI
reply to Dogfather
I downloaded over 500 gigs off of Usenet last month on my RR connection without experiencing throttling.

Sucks to be you, I guess. That little news announcement hasn't come to fruition for me.


Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·MegaPath
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable

Doesn't suck to be me anymore. At that address I switched to FiOS. 50/20Mb for a while 'cause of the free first month but now I have 20/5. Of course now there aren't any problems.

At my Cox address I rarely use usenet and don't use BT do I don't know what they're up to. Lately though speeds in the evening have been shitty no matter what.
-
Forums » FCC Boss Says Comcast Guilty, Should Be PunishedThank you to BroadbandReports.com »
« Law of unintended consequences  
page: 1 · 2 · 3


Thursday, 20-Nov 03:20:52 Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Hosting by www.nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo | feedback | contact
over 9 years online! © 1999-2008 dslreports.com.
page compression OFF
Most commented news this week
· [198] Obama FCC Selection Team Won't Make AT&T Happy
· [100] DSL's Not Dead Yet
· [70] Zone Alarm Pro Free Just For Today
· [66] Harvard Law Professor Sues RIAA
· [51] Cable Grabbing 71% Of New Broadband Customers
· [48] Comcast DOCSIS 3.0 Hits Pacific Northwest In December
· [46] New Xbox 360 'Experience' Goes Live
· [44] Comcast Offers 'Bare Bones' 768kbps VoIP Double Play
· [42] Comcast Buys San Fran Muni-Network
· [41] Spam Success: A 1 In 12.5 Million Shot
Most people now reading
· CRTC Party at Teksavvy Tomorrow [TekSavvy]
· Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here [Comcast HSI]
· [Unlock] TUTORIAL: VONAGE WRTP54G/RTP300 WITH 5.01.04 [VOIP Tech Chat]
· How would you take this? [General Questions]
· Updated VMware / Home Lab setup. [Home/Office setup photos]
· CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20 [TekSavvy]
· Another Hopeflicker meter maid tirade [Rants, Raves, & Praise]
· Discussion on CRTC Non-Ruling thus far... [TekSavvy]
· How Do You Check a URL Before You go there for Nasties? [Security]
· Zonealarm pro for free, nov 18th [Security]