trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| voice call loses/establishes sync. anybody ?
Hi, I have sonic pro-s. Since we moved to a new house, we've had intermittent loss of sync. Sonic has been helpful, at&t has been engaged, more or less.
Everything tests well when at&t is out here, I've tested to remove many many suspects, including by attaching directly to the m-po, trying two modems, two cables, look for suspect RF sources, etc etc etc.
There is only one piece of evidence that might point to the problem...
- if you pick up the phone, you hear data noise, always
- if the connection is up and you pick up the phone, it often loses sync
- if the connection is down and you make a call, within 1 minute the sync is ALWAYS re-established.
I'm told there used to be a piece of gear attached at the house that would do this, but house is new (2yrs) and connection is made directly to the outside world.
Anybody got a clue? Is there a better forum for posting this?
Thanks,
JM. |
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bobrk
1 down, 2 to go, to get to 60
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
 ·SONIC.NET
| Well, the only widget I can think of that you would add to the house would be a POTS splitter, but the filters you presumably have attached to every phone in your house (yes?) do the same job.
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Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
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trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| Yeah, tried different splitters, including phone plugged directly into both modem phone/split output.
I can't remember the name of the old piece of test gear they used to attach at the home, which gave rise to this. But we don't have one.
There has got to be something weird that data can be heard over the voice channel... and something (grounding?) that causes an active voice call to materially affect the connection status...
thanks for chiming in.
Jim |
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bobrk
1 down, 2 to go, to get to 60
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| I've tried it both ways--splitters on each phone, and a pots splitter and home run directly to my modem. I like the latter--much cleaner, and I think I get better speeds.
I've never heard "data" on the line, though, even when I had everything disconnected during testing. Maybe you do have a grounding problem.
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Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
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trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| I just replugged for more testing.
- zoom modem directly into the m-po (I had lately been using another modem).
- phone into the zoom
- good sync
- I got a phone call, lost sync
- I hung up, sync restored
- I called 611 recording lost sync
- after minute or so, sync restored
- I hung up, lost sync
- after a minute or so, sync restored
sick.
I'm trying a different phone next (plain old desk set, as opposed to 5.8GHz base unit).
thx again. |
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burrowowl
Sonic.Net
VIP
join:2003-01-22
Santa Rosa, CA
| Hello,
Conflicts between voice and DSL are almost always caused by a bad splitter (including the possibility of a bad connection on the voice port on a Zoom 5515 or 5615 ADSL modem) or a disturber on the line such as a MTU. A splitter should cut out anything over 4-20kHz from passing through it, and DSL operates at 25kHz+, so there isn't supposed to be any interaction (through the filter) between the phone's signal and that of the ADSL modem. Either the filter isn't killing the phone's noise, or something on the line is causing dissonance with the phone signal that's making noise in the ADSL frequency range.
It sounds like you've already covered the basics, but I'm curious as to whether you've tried a splitter/filter other than just the integrated jack on the back of the modem? It doesn't come up often, but sometimes we see people unable to sync when a phone plugged into the back of the otherwise-perfectly-functional Zoom modem is off its hook. Switching the phone to a separate splitter/filter or a filter on a separate wall jack has helped in some cases.
If the source of the problem was a MTU on the line, the AT&T tech would have probably spotted it immediately, so that's pretty much ruled out. I'm assuming here that the AT&T tech tested not only the line stats while synchronized, but also while synchronized with a phone plugged in and off-hook?
--
John Fitzgerald
Sonic.net Technical Support |
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trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| You're not John K, right? I'm having this ongoing conversation with a few of you helpful guys.
First, I've tried at least 3 splitter setups, two little units, and the integrated splitter in the zoom.
When I use the little units, I haven't plugged the zoom into the DSL half of the dual splitters, it's been straight in. Wait, I have tested it that way, but not very recently.
Now, your second point is what I just realized (and emailed John K) that we have not done: AT&T unplugs my stuff to test with their gear. We have never tested with the phone connected, off hook or otherwise. I don't think their test modem has an integrated splitter; we'd have to jack in my little 2-half splitter to do a test, and I"m sure they'd just blame the splitter at that point. We'd have to mess with internal wiring to test with a second splitter (their test gear into one house jack, the splitter and phone into another).
It seems like the only thing to try. I just confirmed that the standard desk phone set yields the same problem as my 5.8GHz. There are no remaining variables.
AT&T is fully convinced, with reasonable evidence, that there is no problem. After numerous truck rolls, I am not sure they'll be inclined to show up again. They also have a NASTY habit of making an appointment for when I'll be here to work with them, showing up "early", seeing nothing, and canceling the appointment.
And yep, that MTU is the thing everybody checks for, and there is none.
Thanks much
Jim |
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sragle
join:2005-08-08
San Jose, CA | I had a problem that seem liked yours. For me, it was an old desk phone when it rings, it sent noise right back down the phone line that killed my DSL, my solution was to replace the phone. |
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trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| Thanks, that's not too surprising.
I believe I've eliminated that exact cause by trying two phones, including a modern wired desk unit and a modern 5.8GHz cordless base unit.
Also, I have similar effect when *placing* calls, not only when incoming call causes ringing.
Thanks very much, though, for your input and experience.
Jim |
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Snypes
join:2003-12-29
Santa Rosa, CA
| reply to bobrk
We have been working on this issue with the customer for some time. If its a grounding issue then the splitter in the phone box should alleviate that if you run a clean line to the jack for the DSL. If its based on a device then that will be a bit more tricky. Perhaps disconnecting all devices from jacks and then adding one at a time to see if one of items using the phone line is not playing nice might be a good step. The best practice for this is to add one device, then call the location from a cell phone to see if that kills the signal. If its clear, then add another until the problem returns. At that point that device or the load of all devices is the problem. Another consideration is how many jacks are at the location. If you have more than 6 jacks on premise then it might be getting overloaded but that would normally show in the line statistics. Let us know if any of this helps or sheds new light on this issue in the trouble ticket and we will continue to work on this problem.
Thanks! |
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trickybit
join:2004-03-10
Palo Alto, CA
| Thanks for chiming in.
The DSL modem is connected to the outside phone box directly. (i run the cable through the window, to the jack outside).
There is no internal house wiring connected at all. I plugged the modem into the jack in the phone box where my internal wiring would connect.
There is one phone connected directly to the phone jack on the modem. I have tried two different phone sets with same results.
Other configurations, including separate filters and a different modem, have been tried, with same results.
The only test I can think of that I have not tried is to disconnect the one remaining phone, and call my home from a cell phone. I don't know what I should expect that to show or what it would prove either way.
Indeed, Sonic has been working hard with me on this for a long time, and I'm grateful for that work and comments here.
I can hear data on the voice line, and use of the voice line will take down, or fix, the connection. It's just that simple, and it's outside the house.
Jim |
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